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Post by webdominatrix on Apr 19, 2005 19:09:00 GMT -5
Um.....your new pope was a part of the Nazi Youth movement........Great guy - have fun! (sorry, I suddenly became jewish again this year) I heart you Foxy but: 1. "Great guy-have fun!" WTFBBQ? I didn't vote the mofo in and neither did any of the other twenty Catholics that I know. It sounds like you're generalizing Catholics as a whole as anti-semitic supporters. 2. Yes he was apart of the Hitler Youth movement because membership was compulsory for anyone who was fourteen years of age. Could he, at this tender young age have turned the other cheek and told the Gestapo to go hump a sausage? Probably, at the risk of death to him, possibly his family, or a stint in a concentration camp. Remember that Catholics were persecuted during this time as well along with the mentally ill, mentally and physically handicapped, homosexuals, gypsies, and any other group deemed inferior in Hitlers mind. 3. On the other hand, I am well aware of connections that have been made showing that the Vatican had a hand in laundering money and art of Holocaust victims through them for the Germans. Not proud of it, but that wasn't me or my mom or any of the other people I know that choose to align themselves with this particular religion. Am I disgusted enough by this fact to abandon everything I've ever known? Just because someone is German, it does not make them a racist. Just because I'm Catholic doesn't mean I condone or approve of all actions of the church, pretty far from it actually. Just trying to start a friendly debate and maybe some good conversation. If you were offended by any of the above, I apologize in advance because it wasn't meant that way.  |
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Post by Fox on Apr 19, 2005 19:22:37 GMT -5
Hey, I'm in no way saying all Catholics are anti-semitic. And I know the guy most likely had no choice but to join and be part of the Hitler Youth. Besides, in Germany the Nazis made it seem like a really great after school program. But, it does stir up some doubt with me - and maybe that's just from the stories I grew up hearing but.... No worries, I don't take offense to any of what you said. Remember - this is the place for opinions.  |
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Post by TolleHecht on Apr 19, 2005 19:29:37 GMT -5
I'd like the Pope if the Pope smoked dope.  kinda catchy eh? probably no Jamaican Cardinals in concideration anyway |
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Post by webdominatrix on Apr 19, 2005 19:42:11 GMT -5
Oh I know it's a place for opinions, and I could give a fuck what anyone else thinks. But with regards to you and a few other people, the opinion does matter to me.
I was disappointed too, but I expected it. They wanted someone as close to the views and policies as the last pope opinion wise and that would be this guy. I think they really plan on more consideration for the next one for whatever reason. It is an unfortunate circumstance though that he was involved with the Hitler Youth movement, because as much as I disagreed with JPIIs' stance on alot of issues, he did much in the way of narrowing the rift between Catholics and people of the Jewish faith. I just hope the announcement of this pope doesn't hinder any future or past progress made in this area.
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Post by Fox on Apr 19, 2005 19:55:25 GMT -5
Yes, that is my main concern. I would hate to lose any of the progress that the last pope made between Jews and Catholics.
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Post by webmistress on Apr 19, 2005 19:55:31 GMT -5
I'd like the Pope if the Pope smoked dope. What is it with the pot heads and this saying lately? Anyway I was just watching and reading up on the new pope, and I am sadly dissapointed by the way his beliefs may role the church back 50 years... I have a feeling eveything is going pre Vatican II. He has no acceptance towards birth control, a womens right to choose, homosexuality, married clergy (damn if only I could marry a priest who liked like Edward Norton in Keeping the Faith), the abuse scandals, well pretty much eveything this man stands for, scares me. I know I know that the Catholic Church is not known for support on any of these topics, but I felt as though the churches views were (granted@ a snails pace) moving towards well frankly mine (liberal Catholic). I am especially appalled by this mans views on divorce. He has denied communion to people on the pure fact that they were divorced, even if they were never married in the eyes of the church or had their marriage annuled. I feel that this Pope might have me sitting threw a Latin Mass... I can stand aside and say I am only a Holiday Catholic only so long... I refuse to learn latin or cover my head in church... let's keep the ball moving forward not take one huge step backwards... I keep on having it run through my head about how some have prophisied this Pope will mark the begining of the end... If the rapture comes God Damn It I am hiding under my damn bed... Oh by the way doesn't he look like the creepy guy from Stigmata that tried to sufficate Johnnie (?)... ---Bless Me father for I have sinned it has been 5 years since my last confession |
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Post by TheMadHatter on Apr 19, 2005 20:06:43 GMT -5
I wish he'd be as close to the complete opposite as the last pope cuz I didn't care for him much-
After a year marked by terrorism, natural disaster and war, Pope John Paul II on Monday listed gay marriage as the top of the Vatican's priorities in 2005.
Speaking in his annual message to Vatican diplomats, the ailing 84-year-old condemned the rise of pro-gay legislation, including the growing acceptance of laws giving either full or partial marriage rights to same-sex couples.
In a five-page speech that was reportedly read out by an aide, he slammed laws that went against what he viewed as the "natural structure."
"Today the family is often threatened by social and cultural pressures which tend to undermine its stability," he said, according to the International Herald Tribune.
"But in some countries the family is also threatened by legislation which -- at times directly -- challenges its natural structure, which is and must necessarily be that of a union between a man and a woman founded on marriage."
He added that the family structure "must never be undermined by laws based on a narrow and unnatural vision of man."
-Ben Townley, January 11, 2005
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For anyone under 30, it's hard to imagine the Catholic Church as anything other than an ideological monolith -- intentionally insulated, closed to outsiders and incredibly hostile to gays and lesbians. After all, these are the folks who labeled us "morally disordered" and even "evil." And for that, we have John Paul II to thank.
More than any other pope in the modern age, he was a man of his time and place: the years of the Cold War and Eastern Europe. In such an environment, it's easy to develop hard and fast beliefs, especially when you have the institutional force of two millennia backing you up. It's not a coincidence that John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher all took their place on the world stage at the same time. The world was easy to portray in black-and-white terms (as it is again today) -- them against us, evil vs. good. (Guess which side you're supposed to be on.) And urging them on was the firm conviction that the liberal excesses of the '60s and '70s -- including gay liberation -- needed to be corrected or, more accurately, wrung out of the system as vigorously as possible.
But unlike Reagan and Thatcher, John Paul II had absolute authority. Even Ron and Maggie couldn't claim to speak for God (although in Thatcher's case you have to believe she was tempted to lobby for the Supreme Being role for herself). And the result of that absolute authority is a church that slammed shut the window of change that was opened during the Second Vatican Council. For a brief moment, it was possible to look at the church as a progressive force for good in the world. Thanks to John Paul II, that moment is gone.
And thanks to John Paul II, homosexuality has risen to the top of the list of modern evils. This elevation was due to his own experiences. As a young man, he lived through the Nazi occupation of Poland. As a bishop and then cardinal, he endured the repression of a communist regime. Once communism fell, something else had to take its place as the ideology of evil. With the rise of gay rights, we were the easy pick to fill the void.
It's not that John Paul II didn't take aim at other targets. There's always that hardy perennial -- abortion. But you have to admit that nothing seems to have spurred the Church and John Paul II on as much as homosexuality. Bishops who were considered weak on the topic, such as Bishop Rembert Weakland of Milwaukee, were essentially laid off. Dignity, the gay Catholic group, was banned from holding services in local churches.
The pinnacle (or nadir) of the John Paul II papacy has to be the notorious Halloween letter, issued in 1986, which declared gays and lesbians "disordered," "self-indulgent" individuals who "threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people." So much for pastoral outreach. Even the pope's last major statement, his recent book, tore into homosexuality as an ideology of evil.
Don't expect the new pope to make any changes. Imagine a court packed with conservatives getting ready to select the next president. (OK, so you don't have to imagine it.) That is the operating definition of the College of Cardinals, which will choose the new pope. Since practically all were appointed by John Paul II, who enforced a pretty stringent litmus test for conservative ideology, it's hard to imagine them picking somebody from left field, so to speak.
One name being thrown around is Joseph Ratzinger, head of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the author of the Halloween letter. As pope, he would serve for what would be a limited time (he is 77, after all, so the odds are against a very long papacy) while the church sorts out its next move. If you don't think things could be worse, think of a Ratzinger papacy. He's the James Dobson of the Vatican, watching to make sure that no one strays an inch from the philosophical hard line. With him as pope, every day would be Halloween.
-John Gallagher
But I guess if the pope agreed with my views he wouldn't be catholic then would he? heh.. or if he did, then I would be catholic. But I'm not, and he's not gonna agree with my veiws...so I dunno what the purpose of me even posting this is..guess I jus wanted to complain or something
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Post by webdominatrix on Apr 19, 2005 20:06:55 GMT -5
Actually he's supposed to be the one right before the anti-christ, so the next one will be bad ju-ju.
Go here:http://www.crystalinks.com/papalprophecies.html
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Post by TolleHecht on Apr 19, 2005 21:12:35 GMT -5
_______________________________________________
In a five-page speech that was reportedly read out by an aide, he slammed laws that went against what he viewed as the "natural structure."
_______________________________________________
How in the hell can these freaks think that thier lifetime denial of a personal sexuality is part of the "natural structure".
Alot of what the church preaches is so hateful and inhumane that I can't even believe people from my generation or later could even come close to supporting it. It's a freaky, scary cult that goes back for centuries and I hope those of you who still claim it cause your parents made you go to thier schools can get over it some day. (but I won't be praying for you)
I find it funny how people can disagree with almost everything thier childhood religious indoctrination taught them, but still claim that religion. These bastards are preaching AGAINST your fellow man.
I'd just as likely declare myself a Nazi as a Catholic, Christian, Jew, Muslim, you name it. All are groups who think they are somehow chosen/special/better than all others and ALL have ugly histories and hateful policies towards YOUR fellow man.
AMEN
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Post by FunkaliciousSTL on Apr 19, 2005 21:14:57 GMT -5
Isn't Ratzinger a Jewish name?
Hmmmmmmm.
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Post by TolleHecht on Apr 19, 2005 21:37:45 GMT -5
Ratzinger is a German name.
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Post by webdominatrix on Apr 19, 2005 22:31:43 GMT -5
It is a freaky, scary cult but you better be careful saying that cause I'll shut the board down, mister! Just kidding.  It's hard to not align myself with being Catholic. It's almost like your ethnicity in a way. It's like me saying I'm Irish. If I take that part away it's almost like losing my identity. Is this cult speak? Yeah, now that I type it out, it certainly sounds like I had a good brainwashing. However, I DO NOT accept their views on contraception, marriage, homosexuality, science(or their lackthereof), etc. Can't I still identify myself as being Catholic without making myself seem like an ignorant monster? I don't like this shit any more than you do TH, but like I said earlier; just because someone is German, it doesn't mean they're a Nazi. Are you pickin' up what I'm putting down, brother T? |
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Post by TheMadHatter on Apr 19, 2005 22:54:14 GMT -5
spiritualityC
religions D
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Post by webmistress on Apr 19, 2005 23:13:02 GMT -5
I find it funny how people can disagree with almost everything thier childhood religious indoctrination taught them, but still claim that religion. The reason I still consider myself a Catholic, even though pretty much commited every grave and mortal sin is because I am Catholic. To me it is my heritage. I carry the Catholic guilt. I do not believe in 95% of what the church teaches, but when I walk though the doors and genufluct at the cross I feel a sense of peace. Not because Catholism is the "choosen/right" religion but because in church I know how to behave, I know what to do, I know when to sit/kneel/pray. It is one of the very few times in my life I know exactly what I should be doing... I hope this makes sense... ;D |
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Post by Fox on Apr 19, 2005 23:29:22 GMT -5
It makes complete sense! I get ya! You're Catholic like I'm Jewish. I don't follow all the holidays - damn how can I?! There's like at least 2 a month!! I'm definitely not kosher - that is so damn hard to do! Hell apart from being in Jerusalem on shabbat - I hadn't been to temple in 10 years. I went to temple a few weeks ago after my grandfather died for the first time since I was 15. I'm not Jewish in the religious sense, but it is my heritage as WM said. And as I like to say you can't escape the Jewish culture - no matter how hard you try. And I hadn't even called myself Jewish is more years than I can remember. Going to Israel kind of brought that back to me. And you what? I entered the group 10 years ago and immediately after joining I stopped going to temple. Coincidence? I don't think so. It suddenly wasn't ok to be Jewish anymore and I guess it's taken quite a few years for me to be ok with it. Now, don't get me wrong - I'm in no way gung ho about it. There are many things I do not believe in as far as the religion goes. Flaunting being "chosen people" is just childish if you ask me. What makes one religion right and another wrong? I could go on and on about which aspects of the religion I think are BS and which ones I support, but I've rambled on waaaay too long.
My point - hell - by now - I have no fucking clue.
Have a nice night - I think I'm tired of writing by now.
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